To Atheists who believe “Evolution” has effectively killed the need for a God…LOONNG post?
Might I ask…why?
The modern technical definition of evolution is “change in allele frequency in a population over time”. In layman’s terms, it defines evolution as genetic change in a population.
Then we have subsets:
Natural selection = differential propagation of genotypes (due to differences in ability to survive, resist disease, find mates, etc)
Sexual selection = differential success in acquiring fertilizations between genotypes (a sub-set of natural selection)
Genetic drift = the effects of random chance on evolution, mostly seen in small populations and on genes with low frequency
Founder effect / genetic bottleneck = the isolation of a small random or nearly-random sub-set of a population, resulting in alterations in gene frequency due to chance.
There are two “theistic forms” of evolution:
deux ex machina: evolution exists/happens, but is guided by god. This is a very slightly different version of evolutionary theory, but scientifically there is no reason why it couldn’t be the case.
——>It works like thus: imagine a dice is rolled. Whatever the outcome is, it will be unlikely. For example, if a three is rolled, there will only have been a 1/6 chance that that would happen — ie, more likely than not that a three would not be rolled. Yet we accept the outcome as normal, aware that, unlikely as getting a three was, whichever outcome happened would be unlikely and so the unlikeliness itself is no reason to question its occurrence.
However, of all those outcomes, is it not possible that god caused the three to occur? Yup.
If the dice were rolled over and over again, then the high frequency of occurrence of the number three would tip us off as to something peculiar happening, but with just the one occurrence, gods’ interference would leave absolutely no indications that things were being tinkered with.
The implications of this are as thus: the evolution of any given body-plan (including humans) by a process of natural selection acting upon random mutations is slim. Yet humans evolved with exactly this body plan. Are we surprised that we evolved to this plan, when the chances of us possessing this plan were so slim?
deux in machina: The belief that all of the natural laws (including the ones that evolution follows) are created and upheld by a deity, whose essence basically keeps the universe ‘ticking over’.
So…I assume many already know this (those that have taken the time to study bio before embracing evoltuion anyways). My question is knowing this, how cna you continue to say that evolution is incompatible with any form of religious thinking?
To all atheists:
I am NOT trying to disprove evolution. Just read the last paragraph where I ask my question before ranting and lets have some of that intellectual exchange you all claim to want.

October 7th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
no proof of a god or gods
google
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October 7th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Yeah, too long.
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October 7th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
no….we will always need God….the sun doesnt shine without Him!!!
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October 8th, 2011 at 12:36 am
Evolution has nothing to do with belief or disbelief in deities. Fail.
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October 8th, 2011 at 1:35 am
I don’t think that evolution and the concept of a deity are mutually exclusive. Or to put it another way: my acceptance of evolutionary theory has nothing to do with my lack of belief in a god.
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October 8th, 2011 at 2:36 am
Atheists don’t require evolution to acknowledge the non existence of God.
Evolution only contradicts so called inspired biblical descriptions of the beginning.
Any reasoned human can read the bible and see it didn’t really happen that way. But that doesn’t necessarily dispute the existence of a God, which is all that Atheism does.
The existence of God is contradicted by the lack of empirical evidence for his existence.
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October 8th, 2011 at 3:36 am
When the education level goes up dear, religious delusions and superstitions quietly fade away.
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October 8th, 2011 at 5:36 am
Evidence is on the side of evolution.
The jury is back on this one, even the Vatican agrees with evolution and they have historically been the great bastion of scientific opposition.
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October 8th, 2011 at 7:36 am
The typical Moron response is..”There is no proof” Hahahah lol
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October 8th, 2011 at 8:36 am
tl;dr
to sum up just from your question:
evolution makes no assertion to the existence or non-existence of god. is there evidence for one, no, but that isn’t evolution’s call to make as to the final verdict.
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October 8th, 2011 at 9:36 am
It’s possible a god caused it BUT…
1- that is totally unnecessary
2- you just said that most of Genesis was fantasy ruling out that particular god.
Their is no set direction evolution will take you, so saying that the particular outcome is unlikely is meaningless.
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October 8th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Evolution is presented as incontrovertible but any criticizm of it is suppressed by the atheists.
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October 8th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
I do not believe in evolution. I have seen, and understood the evidence, and accept it as the most reasonable explanation OF that Evidence.
I do not believe in sky fairies either. In that case I have seen no indisputable Evidence of their existence.
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October 8th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Evolution is a fact. Stop equating Atheism with Evolution and vice versa.
Deist/Pantheist with a B.A. in Anthropology
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October 8th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Sorry. Far to long and I doubt if you have the faintest idea what you are talking about.
Deist/Pantheist with a B.A. in Anthropology
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October 9th, 2011 at 12:37 am
We can actually see evolution. Certain viruses and some bacteria mutate at alarming rates and bypass treatments and factors we implement to destroy them. These live on, a live view of natural selection. There is a huge amount of evidence supporting evolution. I, however see no convincing evidence for the existence of any god or diety.
Also, like others said, theism and the theory of evolution are not mutually exclusive. Most moderate Christians I know believe that evolution indeed did/does occur, but that there is a master controller moving all the little pieces.
Deist/Pantheist with a B.A. in Anthropology
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October 9th, 2011 at 4:36 am
Evolution doesn’t preclude the existence of God. Common sense does that. What evolution does do is invalidate the creation story of the Bible.
Deist/Pantheist with a B.A. in Anthropology
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October 9th, 2011 at 8:36 am
I don’t, and i have no problem with the concept of a theist evolution but it seems silly to me. You haven’t changed anything, simply stuck a god label behind it really because you wanted to. Sure it is possible the process of evolution is guided but if the outcomes through the guided process and unguided process are the same then the god label is superficial.
It could also be possible that a god of some sort simply set up the process of evolution like a continuous Rube Goldberg device but i find no reason to think this is the case.
Deist/Pantheist with a B.A. in Anthropology
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October 9th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
DEUS EX MACHINa:
a writing technique in which a -seemingly- impossible situation is solved by a completely irrelevant source that was previously unknown
that explains your god alright.
atheist
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October 9th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
its not that they are incompatible, its that god isn’t needed in order to make it work
atheist
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October 10th, 2011 at 1:35 am
Evolution itself does not kill god, but it does lead to the realisation that god is unncessary.
atheist
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October 10th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Evolution disproves Biblical literalism, and if the Bible isn’t literal than it’s just an outdated philosophy book.
Same goes for the Torah or the Qu’ran.
If you want good morals Aesop’s fables are as valid as anything you’ll find in the Bible, and they don’t endorse slavery or the stoning of disobedient children.
atheist
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October 10th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
You are correct in saying that there is no way to tell from a single die roll whether the game is fair. I take issue with your implication that there is only one roll in question here. Changes in allele frequency over time are statistically measurable, and there are millions of individuals in each generation. We should be able to tell if the change is random by examining the diversity within each new generation.
atheist
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October 10th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
You are correct in saying that there is no way to tell from a single die roll whether the game is fair. I take issue with your implication that there is only one roll in question here. Changes in allele frequency over time are statistically measurable, and there are millions of individuals in each generation. We should be able to tell if the change is random by examining the diversity within each new generation.
atheist
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October 10th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
That was a long post. What a pity you feel the need to add a god into evolution. Evolution doesn’t need a god, it works well without one. Theists have used your argument over and over again, it just a pity it’s so facile. You might as well factor in aliens playing with a long distance chance alteration ray looking very similar to a rigged one arm bandit in the universal equivalent of a Mafia Casino- or is that Scientology? It’s so difficult to keep up with theist complications of the elegant simplicity of the universe.
However, I applaud your personal need to try to justify your god against the obvious correctness of evolution- it must be starting to worry you, the burden of proof that scientist expect.
atheist
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October 11th, 2011 at 8:36 am
I don’t say evolution is incompatible with any form of religious thinking, at all. (Well, certain ones, like, ‘the earth literally was created in 7 days and all species were found as is,’ obviously, cannot coincide with evolution.)
I just don’t happen to believe in any gods because I see no evidence of them and no need for them along the evolutionary time line, or in the creation of the physical Earth or universe, or anything else.
I DO say that religious thinking is detrimental to the proper understanding of evolution, because it sets you searching for a ‘why’, as opposed to a ‘how’. The how is where it’s at because there is no ‘why’; the ‘why’ boils down to chemical reactions. We exist and live and laugh and love because oxygen likes to have threesomes with hydrogen.
However, I applaud any theist who at least partially accepts that evolution could have happened. It takes some real willful ignorance to turn a blind eye to, you know, the fossil record…
atheist
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October 11th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Um…
Isn’t a ‘Deus Ex Machina’ the thing that comes down at the end of operas and fixes everything?
Basically it comes down to this – ‘god’ could have used natural means (like evolution) as part of his/her/its plan of creation.
This ‘god’ might have been the prime mover, responsible for setting everything in motion (or keeping it in motion).
Like most things that are postulated without any evidence to support them – it’s possible.
Just not probable.
Agnostic.
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October 12th, 2011 at 12:36 am
Because Deux ex Machina and Deux in Machina are not science, they are part of a belief system.
Also, Deux ex Machina is more commonly associated with Neo-Classicist literature, and most commonly used to describe an inferior plot device that solves an insurmountable issue using an arbitrarily contrived solution.
Next time you want to look like an intelligent christian, or a “progressive” skeptical believer, do it in a kindergarten school house.
Agnostic.
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October 12th, 2011 at 7:36 am
Obviously, there are plenty of people who ‘need’ their imaginary friend. It’s hard to comprehend but if the earth is millions upon billions of years and (modern) human has existed for 5,000-10,000 years (?), that would make the idea of a creator deity even more unnatural than it already is. Why would anything perfect create in the first place and, on top of that, why wait for so long to create humans? Why create organisms that eventually will be extinct and apparently, do not have the brain function to socialize with? And why have it to where they last for a million years but humans are already endangering themselves and other animals in a blip of geologic time?
That idea is just…unrealistic.
Agnostic.
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October 12th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
There are over 600 gods on record. Not one has ever shown them self. They remain shrouded with antiquity and ritual. No god has ever done one single thing for anyone. They refuse to at least cure the common cold. The reason is because they simply do not exist. Your question may sound intelligent, but it is truly a moot issue. There are many many belief systems, Christianity is only one of the many. There is no correlation between a belief, and the scientific proof of evolution. Evolution has not attacked religion. Religion attacks anything and everything that does not fit their agendas.
Agnostic.
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October 12th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Yeah a little long but in short evolution has nothing to do with religion, whether you are for or against it. “Science has no comment on the supernatural” (if I may quote a favorite youtuber) Many have accept evolution and have incorporated it with the “God” concept. I have rejected the notion of a god because I don’t see any evidence to support it’s existence. I don’t see it as incompatible with religious thinking, as seen with the late Pope John Paul II when he said it doesn’t matter how the body developed because man’s soul is what was made in god’s image.
and Fireball you are wrong, the sun can’t shine without fusion
Agnostic.
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October 12th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Actually it seems to be you theists who claim that evolution is against religion. I’ve constantly said they aren’t contradictory.
TEH DEADLY KITTEH HAZ SPOKANE!
Agnostic.
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October 13th, 2011 at 3:37 am
Evolution does not need nor rule out the existence of imaginary beings. The absolute lack of any evidence to the contrary does that all by itself.
Agnostic.
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October 13th, 2011 at 9:37 am
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October 13th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
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